I’m going to say something that might be controversial here. Seriously, especially among Christian circles, this is something difficult for me to say. But I’m just going to say it. Ok here goes: Having obedient children is not my top priority. Ok, there. I said it. Judge me if you will.
But, seriously. Of course I want my children to obey, and I know that it is important. But in the grand scheme of things what is more important – obedience or good judgment? I am working on developing good judgment in my children. If I push for obedience and enforce it by punishing, what will they learn? To be obedient when I am there, out of fear of punishment? But what about when I’m not there? What if they think they won’t get caught? If I’m only training for obedience, how deep does that learning go?
Watch this video and think for a minute.
The question is – how would you want your child to respond in this situation? Would you want him to obey the person in authority? Or would you want him to demonstrate good judgment? When it comes down to it, good judgment is what I’m aiming for. I want my child to do what is right, because in his heart he knows it is the right thing to do. I want him to have that inner strength to make those hard choices and go against the grain when it is the right thing to do. That takes strength. That takes courage. That takes knowing deep inside what is right and what is wrong. I don’t think punishment will teach that. But love will. So that’s what I’m striving for.
This is when it gets really serious for me. Listen to what John Holt says about this experiement,
“People who learn to obey official authority out of fear of disgrace or punishment – sullenly, blindly, like Dr. Milgram’s subjects – irresponsibly – are almost certain to lose the ability either to recognize real and natural authority or to submit to it, willingly, responsibly, and with a whole heart. It is only people who know how to obey for the right reasons who will not obey for the wrong ones, and who will not press the torturer’s switch no matter who orders them to press it.”
This is really important! It is only people who know how to obey for the right reasons who will not obey for the wrong ones.
Another important book, For Your Own Good: Hidden Cruelty in Child-Rearing and the Roots of Violence,
What are you striving for? Do you want your children to obey, or do you want them to choose to do what’s right, because they know in their heart it’s the right thing to do? It’s important to think this through, because depending on what your goal is will drastically change the way you discipline and raise your children now.
Listen to what Lawrence Cohen, the author of Playful Parenting
“Instead of trying to get children to be obedient, I recommend that we strive for them to have good judgment. Obedience lasts only as long as we are in the room with them. It does not help a child know what to do in a brand-new situation. I think every parent has had this experience: Children do something so wild that we never thought of making a rule about it. We usually punish them anyways, because they ‘should have known better.’ But we can’t expect them to have a flexible intelligence to figure out what is right or wrong in a new situation if we have taught them to obey only by enforcing rules. Our world is so complex that children need to have intelligence and good judgment, not just rules.
The goal of most punishment is obedience. Good judgment, on the other hand, comes from talking with children, brainstorming about how they might handle different situations, and discussing moral dilemmas. We have to be on the same wavelength with our children before we can have these types of conversations, so connect first. Connecting with children after they’ve done something wrong, listening to how they feel about it, and telling them calmly how we feel, all do much more to instill good judgment than punishment does.
Children develop into thoughtful, considerate, honest, and kind adults because of love and affection, because of high moral standards, and because of a close relationship with someone who models those values. I have never seen anyone punished into being good. Bribes don’t work either. Promises, threats, rewards, and punishments have been called “the most primitive way of dealing with human beings.” Since humans can think and reason, and because close connections are so important to us, it makes more sense to use loving and talking as the basis for our discipline. “
I know what I’ve been talking about here is a little heavy and a little “out there” for some, but if you made it through and read this whole post, I’d love to hear what your thoughts are.
I have seen so many times in the eyes of my daughter the hours of endless unconditional love that has at times come easy, and at times been more difficult. All this love that I have worked at giving to her because I love her so much has all been shown to me when I ask her to do something for me that I know is difficult for her in the moment…..and it all becomes so clear that love is the answer when she looks at me and says(sometimes out loud, and sometimes without words) “ok Mama”. And I think this is because she has grown trust and respect for me…..and that anything I ask of her is for her in the end. We spend time talking through things and about our feelings. My lessons I have learnt in being her Mama are the most valuable lessons I will ever learn, and I am always learning new ones every day. She is my little teacher and I love her so much.
Just stumbled across this site and I am so grateful, I have an 8month old son and am determined to show him unconditional love-without spanking. But sometimes it raises more questions in my head than answers. I feel that my parents did love me unconditionally but they were very strict and insisted on obedience-enforcing this with smacking, taking away rewards etc. I remember a particular time when I had accidentally broken a vase and when I was asked if I did it, I was scared of getting smacked so I lied and said it wasn’t me. If a child lies to avoid a smack, doesn’t that defeat the purpose of smacking?! Anyway I feel that the way I was raised has had a huge impact, I am letting people walk all over me, so scared to speak my mind in case someone disagrees, feel as though I am trapped in this state where I have to
keep everyone happy. These are all things that I am going to have to work through. This is the absolute last thing I want for my children, will be looking forward to more posts on this issue. In terms of practical ways to implement this style of parenting.
Thank you so much for commenting, Hannah and sharing a bit of your story here. It sounds like you are right where you need to be. Working through stuff. That’s where we all are. Parenting is a journey – different stages can trigger different emotions or memories – it’s always being open to working things through, re-examining our upbringing and being open to making changes. And the changes come from within first. Many blessings as you start down the trail, I hope to hear more from you. Much love from Costa Rica, Leslie
This is a very hard topic to discuss for me. My oldest child is 9 and there’s 5 more after that! I’ve read so much on parenting over the years. Being raised where spanking and verbal manipulation were how to deal with children. I don’t think my single mother had any other objective in raising us other than making sure we were fed and had a roof over our heads. Obedience was the goal in the moment. But not over all and clearly not good character as I don’t think my mother to this day really knows what that means. So no matter what I read or how convinced I am that I want to parent differently, more gently, I don’t know how to change! I always fall back into the parenting that was modeled for me. And I feel as though I have failed my older children. So much so that I’ve just stopped reading anymore about it. I only stumbled on to your site because of a facebook link…it is encouraging that at least some people are raising more gentle kids so it CAN be done…I just don’t *know* how to undo my instinctual parenting. Especially in the case of 6 grumpy kids and a tired mama.
I’m new here, and I’m not sure when this was posted (can’t seem to find a date), so I may be far too late. But I wanted to say how much I appreciate this post.
I was raised very near my cousins, my mother’s sister’s children. Both of our families were Christians, went to church on a regular basis, Sunday School, the whole bit. But our mother’s took very different stances on child discipline. My sisters and I were rarely spanked (I specifically remember only two or three occasions, all before age 4), while my cousins were spanked with the closest object on a daily basis.
My sisters and I were taught that rules had direct consequences, to learn what good judgement was and how to use it. I quite clearly remember that it really only took the right sort of Look, or tone of voice for my mom to get her point across. It was often explained to us why we were to do as we were told instead of just being told to obey. We were allowed to make age appropriate choices, and then were taught to live with the consequences of our choices (whether it was choosing an ice cream flavor or staying out past curfew).
My cousins were handled sternly, with some quoting of the Bible used in an almost vengeful manner, and were almost always spanked as a consequence.
Both families spoke a lot of love, both sets of children were praised for doing the right thing, but it never seemed to sink in for my cousins.
And now, as we’ve all grown up (the youngest of us is now 25), the differences in our upbringings have been made a lot clearer.
My cousins, across the board, are much less capable of making important life decisions. One lives in an abusive relationship with a child out of wedlock, another has never held down a job and now, at 27, has suffered a hand amputation due to bad decision making and is living, out of wedlock, with a child. The other two are more functional, but have had a very tough time being in close relationships with others, and in learning how to choose what sort of relationship is appropriate. They’re more fearful, less confident, and (I think), really look for life to present them with rules in order to be able to function.
I’m not trying to say that my mother’s parenting style was perfect, because that is absolutely untrue. But I do think it was more effective. My two sisters and I are now married, my sisters both have children and my husband and I are working our way through possible infertility, perhaps adoption. As adults, we do have issues. But even in spite of them, I would say that this approach to parenting renders more self sufficient children.
As someone with no kids, I’m not authority on parenting. But, as a nanny, a Sunday School teacher, and an Early Childhood Studies Major, I really believe the way you parent has an overarching affect on your children. It *really* carries over into the rest of their lives. My husband and I often hear, as a young couple, in different ways, that we’d better be prepared to discipline our children. And it’s often implied that this must include spanking, so I’m relieved to read something like this. Because I know, in my experience, that I don’t want to spank my kids, that I want to use a gentler, calmer approach, but I also know that it’s not a popular stance for Christians to take. And going against the grain is never easy. However, isn’t that just the sort of thing we want to model for our children? To make The Right Decision, not the popular one.
So, I feel blessed to have read this, and affirmed that, when we do end up having kids (because I really believe we will, somehow
, we will be able to lovingly parent without being harsh and without spanking.
Thank you for this thoughtful post.
Catie,
Thank you so much for this thoughtful response! It’s really interesting to hear your experience and perspective on this often controversial (especially in Christian circles) topic. I agree that the hardest thing about choosing this parenting route is feeling that you are going against the grain – that’s hard. I end up finding all of my support for parenting online from other moms that live far away from me. But it is a blessing to find an online community of Christian moms who are choosing a gentle approach. Thanks again for sharing your story ~ and keep sharing it and making your voice heard!
parenting should come from love. Everything about parenting comes from love. There needs to be a balance, between teaching a child good judgement, and teaching them to respect authority.
A child will never respect a parent, who doesn’t give his child a REASON to respect him.
Hitting and spanking are abusive acts that only teach a child from a young age, about violence. Furthermore, you rob a child of their innocence when you abuse them in this way.
Children are not computers to be programmed. They are little human beings with feelings, that do NOT understand, no matter how much you explain, why you are spanking or hitting.
Bearing in mind that children are not meant to be controlled, is a good reminder when our children challenge us.
Children do not challenge their parents because they are being naughty but because they are discovering the world around them.
It is up to the parent, to INSTRUCT not hit or spank. It is up to the parent, to EXPLAIN WHY things happen as they do, about consequences. This, is how we prepare them for the world around us.
Example: while browsing in Ikea, my daughter saw a little child’s chair, with a little person sitting in it. I explained to her, that her turn would come up. The mother, while texting away on her cell phone, told her daughter to get up, and give her daughter a turn. She frowned at her mother and in an angry sort of tone, said, “NO!”
I never hit, never spank, never “control” or computerize my kid. But she always does as she’s told; this is because I teach her, I do not attempt to control her, or get her to “obey”.
I think this is an important debate, and I am right there with Leslie. Insisting on obedience is to regularly reinforce separation rather than connection, and I feel that maintaining connection is the higher goal. There are ways to guide children without destroying connection. Obedience is almost always, at its heart, about the parents’ insecurities about the *behavior* of their child today, rather than about the character development of the child in the long term (no matter how much they deny it!). Development of character and moral capacity requires allowing the child to make their own decisions, having discussions, and letting children experience natural (and sometimes constructed) consequences. When my children were very small, the ideas of attachment parenting-style discipline was very helpful–distract, redirect, be present nearby to physically remove/restrain a child if needed, but never punish, reason/lecture, and avoid praise/criticism language (instead, be reflective of the child and matter-of-fact). My favorite resource recently (kids are now 4 and 7) has been Celebrate Calm. They’ve helped me to institute some consequences for certain situations in a very loving, connected, child-centered way, which has brought more balance, openness and peace to our home. I feel this style of guidance brings about a great deal more self-understanding and self-discipline for the child.
I also enjoyed a book–The Moral Child–which helped me to understand the development of moral decisionmaking capacity as children grow. Challenging a child about their behavior at the right “level” of understanding is important. Insisting that obedience is the most important thing, especially within reward/punishment styles of discipline, actually retards the growth of moral understanding.
As a child who grew up in a “loving Christian home” (where young children were spanked and older kids were intimidated and lectured at)…I have to say that it has taken me a very long time to recover from always being told what to do, to find my own voice, and to stop being a people-pleaser, as I was “trained” to be as a young girl. I was a model child, the one for whom “insist on obedience” style parenting worked beautifully…but my spirit was broken. My mother got compliments weekly from our church family about what a lovely girl I was in high school, but I was a basket case at home, utterly lost about how to do everything I thought I should or how to plan for my future, perfectionistic, eating emotionally, getting into ill-advised relationships… Just because I never got into any “real” trouble, doesn’t mean I didn’t suffer, and didn’t have to do a lot of growing up and soul-searching once I left home.
Thank you so much for this. Hearing how the way you were raised has affected your life is so insightful for us parents to hear. Especially the point that these parenting techniques will “work” in the short-term, yes, you may have the most obedient children on the block. But at what cost? Thank you for the book recommendations, as well! I will add both to my amazon wishlist!
This is a great post! I was raised by authoritarian parents, and I am convinced that my personal development was severely stunted because of it. I’ve never been one to stand up for myself or to say no, and all because I was afraid of retribution and people being disappointed in me. This is what I learned from my parents, because their parenting strategy was to hit me or yell or withhold affection when I displeased them or wasn’t absolutely obedient. No, my parents weren’t “abusive,” and we all understood that the “rules” were if you do this, this is the punishment. I always knew that my parents loved me and wanted the best for me. It didn’t matter. Because my parents demanded obedience and used punishments to enforce it, I learned fear, and I even as an adult I have this fearful personality that I am just now trying to overcome.
Using punishment to teach children anything is demonstrably counter-productive, as evidenced by countless studies and research in developmental psychology. As far as I can see, using punishment is the more lazy type of parenting, it’s the easy way out. Finding non-traumatic alternatives to punishment is much, much harder, and takes a lot more work. If I subscribe to my parents’ strategies, there’s no work to do at all, just punish them when they do something wrong. But I’m not going to do that, so I am faced with the challenging work of finding a better way. It’s harder, because I have to resist the urge to satisfy my anger by punishing, and show love and compassion when my children are the least lovable.
Thank you for sharing your personal testimony with us about the results of this style of parenting and how it affected you personally even into adulthood. I think you bring up a very important point that we all can benefit from hearing. And I agree – this is not the easy route – it’s the hard way and requires much more heart-wrenching work on our part as parents. Since I started down this path of gentle parenting I’m growing more as a Christian and as a person than I ever have before.
Sometimes I swear I want a punching bag in my basement so I can go hit it and scream at it when maintaining calm and patience is seriously testing my sanity! Maybe that sounds bad — I’d never touch a person that way — but I’m a physical person and sometimes an inanimate object to hit sounds like a great idea!!
It absolutely DOES require more patience, creativity, and thought to NOT just punish. When I ask my kids to do something, I have to think through “Do they HAVE to do this? If not, how can I phrase this better? What if they do have to…and don’t?” If a spanking isn’t the answer, then what is? My husband asked me last night, what if our daughter didn’t clean up her toys? I had set the timer for her to do so (it motivates her, kind of like a game). What happened if it went off and it wasn’t done? Then I remembered her preferred activity was to go watch a movie with Daddy before bed for a bit. Well, if she didn’t have time to clean up her toys, she wasn’t going to have time to watch a movie with Daddy. She’d have to stay until the job was done and miss that special time. Isn’t that roughly what would happen to an adult? If you messed around all day at work and didn’t get an important project done, wouldn’t you have to stay late and possibly miss out on fun evening plans? Anyway, that’s not what happened. But it took creativity to think, what is the ‘what if’ here?
Saw this post on a friends facebook page so decided to read what you had to say. Dislike it very much.
The Bible clears states that child left to himself will bring his mother to shame; the book of Proverbs many times admonishes us to correct our children “while there is hope” and to spare not for their crying. The book of Proverbs is written to “sons” but believe it could be used for “daughters” also-we need to take heed to what God says about rearing our children. Agree with another comment about how both can be accomplished with lots of love.
My children are young, oldest is 9, youngest is 5. I have seen them both in “situations” where they had to choose good or bad and saw them choose correctly because of what they are taught at home but have also seen them choose incorrectly because THEY ARE HUMAN . I am in no way an “authoritation” type mom; we have fun but we have set rules for “if you do this, this is the punishment” and my kids KNOW the difference. God is my final authority.
This sort of seems like “lazy” parenting. The part of parenting I dislike the most is correcting my kids but I do it cause God told me too not cause I take pleasure in it!! My kids are NOT perfect and make mistakes but then are told how to not do that same thing again. I will not allow my kids to run my home, the rules do!!
Go back to the Bible, read the book of Proverbs then decide if this “method” is truly the best for your kids!!
Please keep in mind, this article is your opinion and my post is my opinion. We all have them, you decide what your’s is going to be!!
To me it seems much lazier to simply hit your child and not spend the time to talk to them about the difference between right and wrong and how that applies to the situation. Did it ever occur to you that less than 1/3 of the world is Christian, and cares not to blindly obey the authority of your Proverbs? I think that you really tragically missed the point, because your blind obedience to the bible sounds like it may be causing you to be abusive to your children. If your children are crying, perhaps you should “spare” them for a minute to find out if there is a more peaceable way to teach them? I think that’s what Jesus would do. I have read the bible, and I don’t ever remember him hitting anyone, nor advocating that anyone else do so either. You have brought judgment, not understanding or even reflection to this discussion. I don’t think that’s very Christian.
Furthermore, the bible says if you spare the rod you spoil the child. People who do not think very much about what the bible is really saying believe ignorantly that the “rod” is a stick with which you beat your child. The rod in the language of the bible was actually a Shepard’s staff. A tool to guide the sheep, to communicate to them gently how to proceed. I have never seen a shepherd beating his sheep, have you?
“If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. … Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death.” (Deuteronomy 21:18-21)
This idea of using violence to elicit obedience from children is part of the old law, and not Jesus’ new covenant of love. Jesus’ message was not “obey or God will smite you” as is the case in the Old Testament. Jesus says to follow him because his yoke is easy, and his burden is light. I am certain that Christianity and corporal punishment are mutually exclusive principles.
Anyone who tries to quote King Solomon at me – well, I just say – Yes! He had such good children! I want my children to be just like his! What wonderful sons he had – what wonderful adults they grew into! Obviously his advice worked so well in his own family, we should all emulate him! *this is said with heavy sarcasm, as any reader of the Bible should know that Solomon’s sons were HORRIBLE men and I definitely don’t want my sons to follow in their footsteps!*
Trina, I think you do raise an important point – whenever I start to talk about not using punishments with my children, the immediate question is, so what do you do??? And the assumption is that if you do not parent in an authoritarian manner than you are a lazy, permissive parent. It’s hard for people to understand that there can be an alternative – not punitive, but not permissive. Some call it Grace-Based Parenting, others call it Gentle Parenting. I hope to post more on that in the future and specifically about setting boundaries and limits with children.
and p.s., thank you Ladies above for adding to the conversation with your insights as well! I think you each raise some interesting, thought-provoking points!
I have been told many times I am ‘too casual’ about my mothering, by my own mother. I was raised in a corporal punishment, my-way-or-the-highway home, and now as a mother, I struggle daily with finding the right balance. I go from wanting things done my way because “I am the parent”, and wanting things done appropriately and in a way that allows for my child (who is 3 and a half) to express her feelings with confidence, and allowing the natural essence of her being to thrive.
When I go out in public, I am told many times that my child is so well-behaved. She uses her manners without prompting (as Kate’s children do), she plays nicely and generally only really ‘plays up’ in new situations. I have taken my mother’s opinion and that of others and come to the conclusion that somehow, I must be doing something right. I am learning to be confident about and comfortable with my daughter’s behaviour and personality, even when things can seem a little hectic. I am hoping to find the right balance for my family, so that my 8-month old daughter can also grow in a loving, nurturing, supportive home. If we don’t show our children that they are fine just the way they are, then who will? Yet at the same time, we need to guide them so they know how to live in this world.
The Bible does say to raise a child in the way he should go, and he (she) will not depart from it. For me, this is the strongest guiding principle, but I also keep in mind God’s love. I know God is Love, and if I followed that carefully enough, then Love would dictate all my actions and how I handle things. But at times I feel that I need specific guidance, specific tips. So I read different parenting books.
It is marvellous that we live in an age where all the different parenting styles do exist and can be questioned, especially in such an arena, where we are all strangers yet can have such an open discussion. If you want the best for your child/ren, then go for your life, explore the styles and find what feels right. Seek guidance and trust that God is guiding you. If somebody critiques you, listen with an open ear. We all make mistakes, and we all have room for improvement.
I feel the need to point out, gently, that I think you’ve missed the point. The point being that “blind obedience” is not the goal; developing a good moral character is.
When I don’t spank, I spend a lot MORE time interacting with and training my children. It’s easy, especially when I’m tired and having a bad day (I’m 8 months pregnant) to say, “Knock it off, we don’t hit people!” and then go spank them if they don’t stop. It’s a lot harder to get the motivation to get up, walk over, gently separate them and say, “We don’t hit people. That hurts, and that’s not how we treat others. Would you like it if someone hit you? Can you apologize now? If this continues, you will need to come and sit over with Mommy instead of getting to play, until you can be under control.” And to say PATIENT as I do this however many times, follow through with the ‘you need to sit with Mommy for awhile’ business, and so on.
“Training” absolutely takes place. Constantly. It’s just the harsh punishments that don’t. Any discipline ‘fits the crime’ as much as possible. Grace and love are offered when needed. Jesus wasn’t harsh when people didn’t obey; he was disapproving and loving and ready to offer grace. And you know what? My children are far more likely to take my message to heart when I treat them the same way, and I see them becoming more empathetic all the time. I see my daughter take my son’s hand and say, “No, buddy, touch gently,” when he pulls her hair instead of just smacking him. If they hurt me — by accident or on purpose — and I say, “Ow, that hurt!” They will stop and say, “Hurt…” and give a kiss (my son) or “Oh, I’m sorry,” (my daughter). Without prompting. From my example of gentleness and grace — BUT with the required correction and training! — they are learning to be the same way. THAT is Biblical parenting; fear is not.
It is much easier to dole out unrelated punishments (hit your friend lose your toy) then it is to sit and explain to a child why he should not hit his friend (empathy is not only natural, but needs to be taught also) It is hardly lazy parenting. I think you are confusing non parenting, with gentle parenting.
I might be the only one, but I believe that you can instill both obedience AND good judgement in your children by finding a balance.
I think it’s important to discipline your children so that they learn that there are consequences for their actions; and then good judgement comes along a short while behind that. On that note, you need to explain WHY they’re being disciplined… so that they can learn from the experience.
Children will ALWAYS test the limits; it’s part of growing up. Boundaries are an absolute necessity when raising children. You have to let them know what is acceptable behavior so that they have a foundation to make the “choice” to either do what is right or wrong.
I try to teach all of my children to go through life treating people as they would want to be treated, to help people out whenever they can, and to be honest. Each of my children has a different personality and has tested each of those “Golden Rules” in different ways. My oldest is now 20, is a wonderful young lady, and a full-time student who’s getting straight A’s in college. I hope that my child-rearing leads to the other 2 children being just as successful.
I don’t think children need to experience something to learn that it is true. They don’t need to touch the stove to know that it’ll burn them; you can just tell them. Fear of consequences is a poor motivator for good behavior. A strong belief in doing the right thing is better. Teaching with words and by example is much more effective, and less painful, than using punishment.
I’ve been thinking about this for awhile and I think a lot of people miss this. My husband and I strive to look at our kids and see their needs. If they are misbehaving, why? Are they tired, hungry? Do they need to cuddle? Do they need to get outside and run? What can we do to better meet their needs so that they don’t misbehave in the future? It’s something we also discuss with them, about choosing more appropriate places/behaviors/etc. and why. Why we don’t make messes (we’ll have to clean them up, we need to take care of our things), why we don’t throw things (we might hurt people), and so on.
Awhile back we were staying with our ILs. They do not see it this way. Things were unusual there because they are remodeling their kitchen and my kids were confused. So they were running around, looking at everything, getting into stuff, etc. They are almost 2 and 3.5. As they were setting up the temporary kitchen, my daughter (3.5) asked a bunch of questions. She wanted to move stuff around to different places sometimes because she did not understand why they were in new places. At one point she tried to grab a rug and my MIL told her no, and when she did not stop, hit her. Smacked her right on her leg. And followed that up by telling her she was a mean girl and no one would like her if she didn’t listen.
I still don’t know what to say. I had been walking towards her at the time, intending to pick her up and tell her not to touch the rug, then take her out of the room to have a chat with her about listening when other people say no, and explaining to her why things were getting moved in the first place. I knew she would stop insisting if she understood the reason.
Or later, when the kids were antsy after church, so we took them to a grassy area outside and told them to run. We knew they’d be more likely to sit at lunch if they had a chance to run outside first. MIL walked over and asked us what was wrong. Nothing, we said, the kids just needed a chance to get out. She seemed very confused as to why we would do this. After all, shouldn’t children sit still at the table just because you said so? Children who are 2 and 3.5!
Our kids are typical little kids. They don’t always listen. They fight. And they do get punished, especially for serious situations. But we expect them to be KIDS. And they are wonderful in so many GOOD ways. They rarely throw fits (they do negotiate! lol), they have good manners (with no prompting), they are compassionate towards others. I think I’ll take what I have, thanks, over instant obedience!
Oh, Kate, I do relate to you! I had a recent instance where my mom told me, (about my 3 yo son), “You better start spanking him or you’re going to have big problems!” It’s hard when you don’t see eye to eye with your family. But context is huge. At the moment she said this, we were in San Francisco – travelling with our four kids in a mini-van, staying in a small hotel room a few blocks away from my sister’s house. It was late, and the two out of four kids were sick and throwing up (one was the baby), also my niece was throwing up. They were all throwing up at the same time all over my sister’s house, while my sister was out somewhere. So my mom and I were frantic to clean it all up. I was also frantic to get the kids out of there and back to the hotel room before they threw up on anything else! I was settling the baby into his stroller, (quickly between throwing up episodes) and Jude was sitting on the stoop waiting for me to put his shoes on. My mom came up and tried to put his shoes on for him. He said, no, I want my mommy to do it. I had no problem to put his shoes on, and I knew how he felt – overwhelmed, tired, he just wanted me. He’s three. That’s ok with me. Honestly, the whole road trip was really hard on him – stopping and visiting all kind of relatives and people he never sees – the whole thing was overwhelming, and this particular situation, I could see he was just barely hanging in there. But she told him, no, he had to put his shoes on and mommy is busy and then proceeded to force his feet into the shoes. Well, what do you think happened? He started crying, of course. No one likes to be forced. So my mom was fed up and exasperated and made that comment to my husband, within earshot of me. Sometimes I think it’s just a lack of understanding of children, the context and taking into consideration all that’s happening and has been happening all day and the feelings of the child.
Your post brought a tear to my eye. As a professional working with parents, I see aspects of this style and it breaks my heart. For some it is hard for them to see things from a child’s perspective, but I do so wish they would try!
I would have told my mil that her hitting my child was abuse and that if she ever wanted to see my child again that she would keep her hands and mean words to herself. Then I would have said that my lo deserved an apology for her actions. Then I probably would say I needed to take a walk because I would be fuming(with my child if course… No way I would leave them alone after that).
Wow. Incredible post! It made me think of instances of persecution where a parent is tortured for Christ, and then told that their CHILD will be imprisoned if they will not recant. One particular instance I recal was of a mother. She actually denied Christ while her child was looking on in order to keep her little girl out of prison. On the way home, the little girl said, “Mommy, Jesus is not pleased with you today. I promise that I will not cry if they put me in prison.” The mother turned right around and went back, and repented of her denial.
My point is that not only do we need to encourage good judgment and critical thinking in our children, but we need to mirror proper obedience as well. Obedience out of love to the RIGHT authority is paramount–no matter what the threat is from the WRONG authority…
This is such a tough issue for me. There are so many factors and elements involved I’m not sure I can get my head around all of it. But first off, I agree: Good judgement is superior to blind obedience. Good judgement is essential. I think the “obedience camp” would suggest that as you teach children to obey they will learn to make good choices. In fact, most of the instances where punishment comes up is when the child is defiantly doing something he or she knows is not okay. Defiance is a very real issue.
And the “first time obedience” camp, I believe, agrees with you that it needs to be about the heart and connection with your child as well; it’s just that because they know you love them, they do what you tell them to do. More than that, the quote above begs the question: What of children too young to discuss, talk and reason with? I’ve read some various opinions on what to do with children that young and the views are wildly divergent.
…all that to say: I think there is some excellent stuff here… and there is so much more to this issue [smile].
~Luke
You are right, Luke, there is a lot more to this issue than can be covered in a single blog post! It’s definitely a post to just “get the wheels turning.” And I think it’s leaving people with the question – so if you do not use punishment, etc., then what do you do? And what you do will be different depending on the age of the child and where he’s at developmentally. So, that will have to be another post! It is way more complex than can be covered in a few paragraphs. Thanks for the comment and insightful thoughts!
Luke, your questions are quite common, and I used to wonder the same thing. If a child is not developmentally ready to be reasoned with, they are most likely not developmentally ready to understand punishment either. They will simply concentrate on their anger and sadness, and not what they did ”wrong” There are different opinions, but I trust the opinion of early childhood educators and child psychology experts the most in this area. The best way to avoid troublesome behaviour in very young toddlers is to a) redirect and avoid situations that give them the opportunity. They have time to learn right from wrong, and at this age it is not all that realistic (of course, some kids get it right away, but I digress) b) we need to stop seeing certain behaviours as bad and see them as normal.
There are many techniques that can help parents of young children in this area, but these are two that worked very well for me.
A baby throwing food from her plate is not misbehaving, she is simply playing. Mine did it and everyone said I needed to punish her. I just showed her what we do with food, and tried to generally make it a non issue. Sure enough, despite what everyone said, she is now NOT throwing food from her plate at the age of 2 and a half
Fantastic post! I loved every word – very inspiring to me as a mum. Thank you.
Very good article. Love it and agree 100%. Have gotten in many arguments over this topic—